La geolgie, est par definition, la science de la Terre.
Most of what I’ve read in geology and paleontology in the past three – six months has either been in French or been really old. (Hutton’s book is almost impossible to read. All of his “s”s are “f”s and all of his “g”s are “p”s. It petf fliphtly irritatinp.
Anyway, the purpose of me coming here today was to look into the look at the estimate with regards to the time of the Earth, to look into a question or two about climate that were given to me yesterday and for interests sake read about the changes for which the Earth has undergone and in what time frame. In the middle of my perusing through the shelves of geology books I came to the “fossil record and evolution” section – much to my delight as it’s been a topic that I’ve been talking about with a few people the past little while. Not much to my delight there was someone else at the books, reading and scoffing.
“What’s the problem?” I asked stupidly.
“I can’t believe this is in this section.” The 20 something year old said to me.
“What section would you suggest the geology books would be in, besides the geology section?”
“The religion and culture section.” He suggested.
“Maybe we should sit down for this.” I suggested.
We found a table, introduced ourselves – I learned his name is Everest (like the mountain) and that he was in the library for the same reason as I am – something to do. So we both knew we weren’t keeping each other from productive work. I let him make his case first.
“Well, geology is just like a religion. It’s mind blowing that it’s considered to be one of the hard sciences. Geology proposes to explain life the universe and everything. Can you even give scientific examples of WHY the earth remains in the constant states of motion that it does?
It is almost exactly like the bible and Christianity. It is cosmically oriented. The whole story of geological history explains how humans have gained power, and how it cases human productivity. It is a simple story of cause and relation creating a story, a fictional story, that people try to use as real “evidence” for the world.”
First of all, geology isn’t a hard science, here is why:
|
Concept
|
Hard science/Hard theories
|
Earth science/geology
|
|
Basis
|
Controlled by a study and scientific method
|
Take it [the earth] as it is. Look at the formations and try to develop an understanding of why it looks like it does
|
|
Goal
|
Develop theories that explain the earth (or whatever you happen to be studying)
|
Develop understanding and appreciation. Create a story
|
|
Emphasis
|
Idealizations; general principles presumed to apply at all times to all places
|
Real phenomena; concrete and particular happenings
|
|
Characteristics
|
Experimental/
Predictive/
Mathematical
|
Experimental/
Historical/
Observational
|
|
Method
|
Controlled experimental group or model simulation
|
Observation to stimulate hypothesis
|
|
Tools
|
Facts and previous theories
|
Observation
|
|
Role of Data
|
Verification of model predictions
|
Sings providing
indices of casual process
|
|
Logic
|
Valid reasoning in regards to what we can say about the earth
|
Meaningful reasoning which emphasizes what the Earth does and “says”
|
So it’s not a hard science. I am sure there are people out there who would like to call it a hard science, but it’s just not. It’s a mixed science. Some people do the hard science side of it, others do the presumptive and social work of it – but all together it’s not a hard science.
As for explaining everything – it’s almost entirely impossible… obviously, so why would any sane person propose that their subject defines everything? Every geologist I know admits that there are gaps in things, and still questions being asked. If there weren’t, why would bother studying it? But yes, we can explain why the earth remains in the constant states of motion that it stays in.
The land we rest on is not simple and original, but it is a composition and has been formed by the operation of second causes. There are 2 fundamental processes.
1. Convection – the Earth is hot, so hot that it’s not stable. The condition of stability is explained by this equation:
(ςT/ςP)s = αT/ρCp
Where T and P represent temperature and pressure, S is constant entropy, α is the coefficient of the thermal expansion, ρ is density and Cp is heat capacity at constant pressure. This is the driving force for plate tectonics. They are in constant motion as heat changes, and don’t stop. One of our constant states of motion.
2. Radial Compositional Differentiation – in short … Gravity. Elements or ionic groups with low density rise, denser elements sink. The redistribution lowers the potential energy of the earth and stabilizes it. Now – most of this happened in the original “formation” or the earth – which is why we have a Fe-Ni core, but it is a constant process, just not as hardcore as when the earth started forming.
As for the geology being cosmically oriented? … It’s just not. It’s not a story or origin or a greater creator. It is a history of casual relations that create what is under our feet today. The fossil record just happens to explain a lot of what life is. Hutton’s theory of uniformitarianism is the same idea that Darwin used to create his theory of evolution. … Things happen as a process, and a slow one at that. Coupled with biology, sure geology explains a lot of where life came from, but not in the same way as a religion.
Comparing geology to a religion because it tells a story is just silly.
A quote by Hobbes popped into my mind “For what is the heart but a spring, and the nerves but so many strings, and the joints but so many wheels giving motion to the whole body”
But Everest’s definition of geology as a religion, biology has also just fallen in because it explains the human body, where we get our “power”, how we adapt and change over time to optimize our bodies… etc.
“No, biology is not a religion because it uses proof that is here right now to back up what it is doing. Geology just uses history to create a story and to write hypothesis on how the world may have started. Just like in the bible there are gaps in how people are made. What is there Precambrian that gives us any proof of life? That backs up any of a geologist’s claims for evolution? Nothing! The whole scale of how life evolved just doesn’t flow together. I have never seen a chart in which you can show a non-nucleus organism linked to humans. Yet geologists say their “fossil record” indeed shows this.”
Well, Everest, it does. A while ago I made this “tree of life”…(yeah, that’s what I do in my spare time) It doesn’t go back as far as non-nuclei but pre what I have on that photo there was asexual bacteria with no nucleus… They were tiny little cells that obtained energy by either fermentation, photosynthesis or chemosynthesis (aerobic respiration, anaerobic respiration and lithotrophy aka the one I always forget.) We there were prokaryotes, primitive eukaryots and then fungi and yadda yadda… eventually making a frog – and the rest is history.
Everest had to go, but it was one of the strangest conversations I have ever had with someone. The theory of geology being a religion is not one I had ever heard. But it did give me my mental run for the day, which was nice. Any opportunity I can have to run my mouth for a while on geology is fine by me. Sadly – this isn’t “my area”. Mine is rocks. Current day rocks. …Like… classification. I know – I have no future.
I hate the library. People type too loud, or they talk in quite areas, or they keep sniffing instead of blowing their noise, or they try to eat quietly and fail, or they listen to bad music too loudly on their headphones, or they are wearing too much stink or not enough, or they stare at you… I always forget why I don’t come here.
