First of all - lets not forget - I’m an atheist.

1. Lectures - secularist groups (at least here in Canada) have three kinds of events. FSM Dinners, movies nights and lectures. I used to love the lectures. I would be super excited for them, and would attend every single one, even if it meant dropping money on the bus for Toronto. But now I’ve been involved with the groups for a few years and it’s all starting to get a little redundant. Especially the ones that are like “SCIENCE RULES! SUCK IT RELIGION”… they’re getting a little tiring. I think part of that is because I’m not as militant in my atheism as I used to be. (My thoughts are still the same, but not my actions. I’ve exacerbated [edit: thats the wrong word I wanted - I’ve tired out my energy toward many things and am focusing on more central ones.) The couple of lectures that I’ve seen where people break out of that comfort zone of atheists (think Wodek and Kauffman) the crowd goes wild, and not in a good way. “People” get rude and abrupt and angry because the lecturers aren’t feeling sorry for atheists and talking about how awesome science is.*

Dare I say - it’s like church - when a minister comes in with new ideas, the congregation goes ape shit because they’re so stuck in their ways.

2. Conferences - There are always SO MANY. …Why does this annoy me? Because I can’t go to all of them and not enough of them are near Toronto. The student leadership conference will be tres beans. But I wish I could go to TAM, SSA’s conference, all the Skepchick shit that goes on, the NYC conference last year… etc. However - at all of these conferences… lectures. See #1.

3. Dawkins - I think I’ve made it pretty clear in the past that I don’t like Dawkins. I really don’t want Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens to be the voice of my atheism. Because it’s not the voice of many people’s atheism, and it gives people a dangerous path to follow in their atheism. It makes them intolerant, gives them a reason not even try to understand and makes it impossible to have conversations with them. It’s like a hardcore theist - their theism leads them to dangerous places (mentally and physically), their beliefs give them reason to not listen to anyone else and they’re almost always impossible to talk to. The person I want to speak for my atheism is willing to listen, understands if you choose to be religious (and respects that) and attempts to have conversations (where they’re not shoving things down the other person’s throat).

4. Level of Seriousness - Almost all of the atheists I know really need to have a bit more fun. Fo’ realz guyz. Sometimes I see myself slipping into this, and then crack a joke to make everything all better again.

5. Intelligence - Yes, we knoooow you’re a scientist. We knooooow you’ve read a million books and written 4. We knoooooow that you know Richard Dawkins. We knooooow that you know the REAL definition of evolution. We KNOW that you know everything about religions. And we KNNNOOOOWW that you know God isn’t real. So shut up, and talk to me about philosophy like… morals, animal rights, the environment or politics or something else when we’re at a bar. Or when we’ve known each other for more than 3 years. Talk to me about something else besides how smart you are and how you absolutely know everything there is to know about everything that is worth knowing about.

6. Closed minded - This stands for most of my “liberal” friends as well. They can’t see things from the other side. A good example is something going on at a blog I was reading where people just can’t wrap their head around the fact that people can be spiritual, and not be religious. Religion implies some sort of formality, and doesn’t always include a really deep connection to things. I know a lot of people who are religious. They go to church, and they go through the motions but they have no connection to it. Then I know a lot of people who never go to church, who don’t claim to believe in God or even know what God is - but they have this deep connection to what they usually call “something” and they feel like it strengthens their spirit. And gives them a deeper connection to things and whatever that “something” is. And I respect that. They’re not religious. They’re not following any sort of religious dogma, or religious traditions, or even claiming belief in God. They’re developing what they call their spirituality. And I think there is a fine line between spirituality and religion - but a line nonetheless.

7. Positive Outlook - Many lack it. And I guess saying why atheists annoy me isn’t all that positive, but… I need to rant once in a while. I really dislike that so often so many atheists are always looking at the negative. They focus on what’s wrong and when ever they’re shown something that’s fantastic, they find something wrong with it. When they’re told they’re not being victimized for once, the go up in arms because they NEED to be victimized or they can’t be pissed off at the world anymore. I find that especially the old people just like to grumble about things. The younger people just like to fight with other people. It’s like environmentalists (yes, I always have to compare) they were SO doom and gloom! Finally someone came out with that book Good News For A Change and it was SO refreshing to read because environmentalists were for once looking at what was accomplished and what good was coming out of their initiatives and things to look forward to in the future. What do we have to look forward to in the secularist front? We should talk more about that. (maybe I will… later.)

8. Spirituality - I made the list before I wrote the comments in each one. I guess I sort of already covered this. See #6.

9. The Number Of Organizations - There’s a lot. And too many of them do not work together on anything. I won’t get into specifics, but the more I get into these groups the more I see the schisms between different ones and the more I think “this is just silly”. When I was getting the CFI job, I had to look at things from a different perspective, … I had to see that that grassroots way of thinking had to be put aside to maintain an organization. But now, I’m back to grassroots and I can go back to claiming that we all need to work together - despite our differences.

10. I think that’s it. At least for now. I was hoping to come up with 10, just to make it a more… ordinary number to stop at… but, alas, I didn’t! I should however mention…

Things I love?

1. Feminists - almost all atheist boys are feminists too. my next boyfriend needs to be a feminist. (not the loud and annoying kinds though…just the feministy kind.)

2. Philosophy - we talk about it ALL the time. and that’s really cool. and hot. same with talking about science. and i love it that my friends are a group of people who appreciate the fact that i do mathematical logic in my spare time, they don’t think it’s weird.

3. Intelligence - i know it was something that annoyed me, but I love it too. all my atheist friendies are so smart. and its super cute.

4. Understand Me - a lot of people who don’t take a firm stance on being an atheist and who aren’t involved with the secularist movement don’t understand my time commitment. I spend a LOT of time (and money and energy and thought) on secularism. It’s what I do in my spare time. A lot of my friends who I had pre-CFI times now don’t get why I need to spend SO much time at CFI. Allen and I have a LOT of conversations about the point of CFI, what we do, and why we need to do it. …They’re constructive conversations, but at the end he still walks away not knowing why I’m involved and I still walk away not knowing how he couldn’t be involved. (Actually, he’s a friend of the center. I made him sign up.)

5. Fun - yeah, this contradicts “seriousness” … but they are fun … when they’re nto being too serious about things. Some of the best times I’ve had this year have been with CFI folks. We have a good time.

*Don’t get me wrong… science is awesome but I was trying to make a point.

I’m sorry that I talk about Hemant so much - but I really only have time to read like 3 blogs, and his happens to be the one where all the interesting stuff happens. …He has a new girl blogging on his site - Lindsay Fay. She’s really funny, young (around my age), really pretty and a member of the mormon church.

When I first heard about Lindsay going to blog on Hemant’s site I was actually pretty excited - because I like to learn about new religions and talk to people about their religions.

However, some people at the humble abode of Hemant haven’t been so responsive to the newcomer.

RobL says:
Decided at 14 that it was total mind bending nonsense and have been atheist ever since. Joseph Smith was just a skilled con artist who duped all his naïve followers. Thanks for bringing back all the things I spent years trying to forget…

kamod says:
First of all most us know about Mormonism.. Yes it does involve in believing loads of things. But this post has done it finally, I agree with being friendlyatheist and all that shit. But I can’t read this blog anymore.. Well done Hemant. Good going.

Darryl says:

I know everything I need to know about Mormonism. It’s the product of one of the most obvious cons in religious history. The only aspect of it that’s worth study is its sociological meaning. I never cease to be amazed that otherwise intelligent and educated people can actually believe this stuff. Ah, the power of the imagination.

Escualidus Arrechus says:
I have to agree with kamod, actually, minus all the profanity.

Hemant has worked himself into an interesting corner. I don’t really care that these guys can’t just STFU and skip over stuff they don’t want to read but it all raised some interesting thoughts.

The easiest way to run an atheist blog is to post things that mock religion - because that’s what a lot of people read. I’ll even admit that I like looking at that sort of stuff. And really - thats a lot of what Hemant had gotten into posting. There has also been a lot of really good recent material on atheist groups and the evolving that they’re doing. But still - a lot of that stereotypical mocking religion stuff - and the crowd that’s reading played it up even more.

The comments were probably the biggest hazing ground for the religions that were brought up in the post.

So then Hemant introduces a religious person. Not only a religious person - a mormon. Once my grandma said to me [my sister is dating a guy from Utah] “Oh, lets just hope he’s not one of those crazy mormons” and she’s been a devote christian her whole life. Most people know Mormonism is a little strange. But that’s the new very part time face of the Friendly Atheist site.

How are people supposed to react to that? A lot of us who are now atheists used to be something else… United, Baptist, Anglican, Mormon, Catholic, Hindu… whatever… After that gigantic flip in our lives we’ve had to search for somewhere else to fit in. Find new connections, new places to go read and new people to talk to. So for me personally - I was waiting for those comments to come into Hemant’s blog.

It’s not that these people who are commenting are totally intolerant of religion - but they had found a domain to get information and people who shared a common lifestyle and common ideas. To throw a Mormon into the mix to write about her Mormonism and to teach us all about Mormonism just had “bad news” written all over it.

I know that Hemant wants to open up dialogue with religious people, but I don’t think inviting a Mormon to come into the atheist’s cave to talk about her Mormonism and teach us all about the rules and practices of Mormonism is the smartest way to go about doing that. Most of us left religion because it was a horrible experience in our lives. We didn’t like it, we felt that it was brainwashing, it was irrational… etc. Very *very* few people are like me… who left religion, but still wants to research religions, talk about faith, explore other people’s faith and get into their minds. Most just want religion to eff off, and don’t want to have to deal with it again.

That’s our picture from last year… I’ll be sure to get into the front this year….. as you can barely see me… tucked into the very back left hand corner… I think I was being all “i’m too cool for this” when now I’m like “aaaah! i wanna be in the front!”

So the leadership conference last year was amazing. That’s my coverage…here’s CFI’s actual write up on the weekend… with write ups by me, Tyler Handely, Jack Rivall and Elvia Nidia Gonzalez. Tyler is awesome and will be working at CFI this summer - which is totally awesome. We need a Canadian voice there! Jack is also all sorts of amazing… he’s hilarious and was definitely someone I kept in touch with after the conference was over.

The conference is what really pushed me full throttle into student activism in the secular world… (I was slightly involved previously, but after that conference I was like a weekly visitor to CFI and pretty insistent about taking over the Guelph group.) I thought about doing some “live blogging” of sorts this year - but then realized that I’d have to take a laptop… and not talk to all my USA friends as much as I’d be blogging. So … I won’t be live blogging, but I’ll bring lots or stories and goodness back with me to write about

Anyway - this year’s conference is in July! Yay! And anyone who is involved with on campus activism and what have yous of secular organizations should DEFINITELY go. I wasn’t 100% into all the speakers last year - although they were really interesting - it was FAR more productive and interesting to interact, network and toss ideas around with so many other student leaders from across North America.

So here’s the info for this year! I hope to see you ALL there! (yay Roy!)

CFI Student Leadership Conference 2008

The Center for Inquiry is pleased to announce our 2008 Student Leadership Conference, to be held July 18-20 at the Center for Inquiry Transnational in Amherst, NY. The conference will feature special keynote addresses by Paul Kurtz, Eddie Tabash, Robert Price, high school activist Matthew LaClair, and others.

The conference marks the 12th anniversary of our campus outreach program and will coincide with the opening weekend of the CFI Institute Summer Session and our annual CFI Community Leaders training weekend. The event brings together student and community activists from around North America for a blowout weekend of workshops, networking, lectures, and top-notch entertainment featuring some of the leading minds in the humanist and skeptic movements. You will not be disappointed!

We encourage every campus group to send at least one representative (if not more!) and we are keeping the costs down to make sure this is possible. Registration, room, and board for the entire three-day event cost only $35 for interested students. A limited number of travel and registration grants are available, based on need, to make sure every group can send a representative even if it lacks the resources to do so. The registration form and grant application can be found here.

So, what are you waiting for? Send in your registration today, or email Debbie Goddard at dgoddard@centerforinquiry.net for more information.

GO GO GO! If you’re going from ANY area that is moderately close by there will likely be a carpool. I know from Toronto we took two cars last year and paid very little for transportation. The whole weekend cost me tops $50… if that. It was such a good time.

So I hope everyone interested will attend! (for more info… although I dont know what else you’d need to know… just e-mail me!)

On Friday CFI held an event with the producer of the Agenda, Wodek Szemberg, on the topic of why we see so few atheists in the media. I *really* wanted to go - but again the whole sick thing got in the way.

I heard feedback about the event that wasn’t so hot, on point in particular stuck out to me where one of the members of our group said he was ignoring/disregarding scientific fact. As someone who has spent the last few years fighting for rationality and science that tickled me wrong. However - when I dug for more info the “truth” of the matter came out.

Some people in the crowd were getting angry because the speaker wasn’t feeling sorry for atheists. Because he was telling it like it is. He claimed that all shows that are free of God and religion, are essentially secular - like a sporting game.

Now I can see why people would get angry about this. Because when they think “secular television” they think TV that is actually catering to their… “movement” or whatever. They are thinking a show ABOUT atheism/secular humanism like the Skeptologist or Point of Inquiry. They’re shows made my skeptics/atheists/humanists to cater to that crowd about issues they deem important.

… People want to see atheist propaganda - and simply secular television isn’t good enough for them. Ah ha. But I see where the confusion is coming in for people.

People want to see loud and proud atheists on TV shouting “WOO DAWKINS!” or talking about how awesome science is. Having a secular program, just isn’t good enough for them. An important point that was made is that they weren’t feeling like the victims anymore - and that wasn’t good. Because if we’re not the victims, how can we make everyone feel sorry for us?

Simply put, I feel bad that this guy took flak from the audience for telling the truth. The fact of the matter is - the proposals that are put in to make secularist television shows are SO lame and cheesy. It’s difficult to create a television show surrounding a movement. There aren’t really that many environmentalist television shows, or feminists television shows. There are shows with feminists on them, there are also shows that are written and directed and produced entirely by women - but the theme isn’t always feminism. That doesn’t make it a non-feminist show.

If there was an “atheist” show on television, I likely wouldn’t watch it. Just like I don’t read many blogs that are loud and proud about atheism 24/7. The one statement that really got me worked up was this by Rod “He sure doesn’t sound like an atheist.”

Why? because he didn’t tell you what you wanted to hear? because he didn’t make it seem like the media was giving atheists a spanking? because he didn’t start spouting anti-religious propaganda? Ask me about my views on religion - I don’t sound like your everyday Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris atheists. I can assure you of that. To say that someone “doesn’t sound like an atheist” because they didn’t tell you that the people in your movement are being victimized is pure crap.

I really wish I would have gone to that talk. I think the speaker was spot on, and deserved much more credit and appreciation than what he was shown.

*UPDATE*

Zak has a blog. I think I knew it existed a long time ago, but couldn’t find it again. Anyway, he does write ups about CFI stuff - and I like them because he a) doesn’t sugar coat things and b) usually formulates some of my thoughts into sentences that I usually don’t know how to formulate. His sum-up of the event:

Overall, the evening was a refreshing look into atheist activism in Canada. I now realize that about half the visitors at CFI events are morons who have more in common with the religions they claim to oppose than the freedom of thought and ideas that CFI is suppose to really be about. However, the question period that followed was long (as was expected) but the questions were generally polite and supportive since the rude and crazy people made themselves heard throughout the presentation and, I suppose, couldn’t think of any new ways to rant. More importantly, the activists in the crowd (the ones who actually do things) were generally supportive of the message being presented so I hope we can use the opportunity to start working towards more productive and realistic goals.

Amen.

*update #2*

So… I had to take all the quotes out from the e-mails, it’s hard to gain the same message from the post, but alas… gotta do. Everyone who has been reading my blog for a while knows I hate more than anything on earth taking stuff off of my blog - especially when it’s been there for more than a few days and has gotten a lot of reads. I remember when the christian camp asked me to take stuff down it nearly went as far as court.

I think the last time I willingly took content down from my site is when a friend of mine was arrested for manslaughter… after I posted the stuff, I decided I didn’t want it up.

However. …I … whatever.

I’m running out of energy to keep blogging. I get in trouble too much.

Earlier this week I interviewed Hemant Mehta about… various things. Here’s the interview. I was going to upload the entire show onto here - but it took 20 minutes just to upload the interview, so there’s no way I was going to wait for a hour and a half show to upload. Anyway - it’s long, but it’s interesting, because he’s interesting.

Seriously - this guy was the easiest interview of my life. You don’t even have to ask a question - just say like three words and he’ll start talking for like 10 minutes straight… There I was worried I wasn’t going to have enough questions when really I didn’t even get to like 1/2 of the other I wanted to ask.

Anyway - it was a pre-hype for his visit to Toronto on June 27th when he’ll be doing a talk at U of T in the multi-faith center at 7 pm. I’m pretty excited for his visit.

In other news - Tomorrow is the ROM trip for all the campus groups in the area! Woo! About 50 secular students will be meeting in front of the Royal Ontario Museum to go see the Darwin Exhibit. We solidified a few extra tickets - so if you’re a student and in the area feel free to meet everyone there at 11 am! The exhibit will be followed by a BBQ and discussion at the Center for Inquiry - Ontario located at 216 Beverley. This whole trip was the baby of my group… but now I can’t go, nor can my VP who was most excited for it. I’ve been running a fever for the past three days and barely been able to get out of bed for more than half an hour. (Hence the complete lack of posting while having the entire week off.)

Hopefully I’ll feel better soon.

Go to the ROM in my name.