Liberal Debutante

17 Jan, 2008

Why Religion Must Change, Or Die

Posted by: Katie Kish In: Rantage| Religion

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Change is based on the people, the culture and the processes. All three of these things are being altered as a new generation of skeptics and questioners enter into the world - if religion doesn’t accommodate, where will it end up?

It’s no secret that I’m not religious. I don’t hide it, and am usually actually quite loud about it. My mom says that one day “You’ll Learn” and I’ll change my mind and ideas about it all - and honestly… I’m trying. I’m not an atheist because I have actively decided to talk out against religion or whatever god there may or may not be. It’s because I’ve looked, and haven’t found.

Believe me, I gave christianity a good run for it’s money. I did the whole church-every-week thing (being a minister’s daughter, I didn’t have a lot of options) and then even as a teenager, when my parents gave me a choice, I stuck with it. I went to Acquire The Fire, fell to my knees, threw my hands in the air and gave myself to whatever power was taking over me. And it was fantastic. I was happy. I had friends surrounding me, I had a god that loved me and I had something to turn to when I was scared or lonely. I never lost any friends while being a Christian.

Not only have I lost friends over being an atheist - I’ve lost jobs, been told I can’t listen to some musicians because they’re “Godly” and I’m not, and most recently been pushed off Facebook. (I’m back kicking strong, but keeping a lower profile.) One of the things I was trying to tell people on Facebook during this little escapade was that Islam HAS to change, or it’s going to die.

I’ve recently read the book “Why Christianity Must Change Or Die” by John Spong. The title (and the majority of the book its self) fits in really well with what I’ve spent the last week arguing with people about. There are two different ideas that I’m going to dive into here - the first is that Christianity does need to change - it has before, but it needs to again… and the point that I actually want to get across is that Islam has to change too (at least once).

Christianity went through a bit split, as did Judaism in the 18th century. During the enlightenment and post-enlightenment both religions had to make room for secularist thought and progressive behaviors in the religions.  And just like the pressure and denial that we hear from Islamist extremists today, you would hear from the Catholics and Orthodox Jews then. The Christianity that the protestants were claiming was not Christianity in the eyes of the Catholics. It maintained the core and fundamental beliefs (say - the 10 commandments…) and applied them to a much more progressive and modern religion. But it wasn’t (and sometimes still isn’t) recognized by the Catholics.

Christianity had to change. It has to change again now, to a different extent. (This is what the book I was reading looked at.) I talk about this sort of change with my step dad quite often (who is often sort of shunned at church for taking this view…) - Churches are killing themselves. They don’t appeal to the younger generation. Even if I wanted to go to church - there isn’t one that I would go to. They are either full of old, out dated traditions and hymns that put me to sleep or corny rock and roll that I can’t relate to on any level. There is no church that allows you to come in and ask questions, while maintaining that you’re christian.  I remember in my Sunday School class when I went to Sheridan United Church in Mississauga I asked my teacher “But how are we certain that there is a god, and that we are in the right religion?” His answer was “Because the bible says so…”

What kind of answer is that to give to a 14 year old questioning youth? I have yet to find a church that allows for this type of discussion, and that actually caters to youth and more importantly 20 - 40 year olds. At a university I went to there was an Inter-Faith Chapel. Every sunday they gathered, and it was for all faiths. Islam - Christianity - Buddhism - Baha’i - all of them. They would use the first 40 minutes to do a type of service that was more or less inclusive. There was no minister or leader, each week someone else led the service in a way that felt right and spiritual to them. Following the service there was a discussion - you could ask what ever you wanted, and there would be open discussion about it.

People who firmly believed in god would sit there and humor you while you discussed the possibility of there not being one. I went every week… It was interesting, and if I were to become a Christian, that is the “church” that I would want to worship in. (There were “regular” worship services on sunday nights too…)

Islam needs to make BOTH of these changes. It needs to accept, just as christians and jews accepted that not everyone in their religion is going to be a fundamentalist and follow every single word that has been written in that little book. They all need to grow up and see that worshiping a god - is worshiping a god. You don’t have to stone homosexuals to be the best muslim. You don’t have to stay the hell away from a beer to show god that you are a true follower.

Kenya is in a horrible position right now because the yonger generations want a new leader, where as the old fuds want to stay in power - so there is violence breaking out. It needs to change.

Islam extremists are living in a world that existed a thousand years ago. It needs to change.

People who sit and say religion is a waste of time, and throw slander at religious people need to realize that not everyone in this world thinks the same. It needs to change.

I’m sick of everyone bickering back and forth about who is right and who is wrong.  More than that I’m sick of all the liberals out there who say they are progressive and for all kinds of religion. … Because it’s always “all religions except that one… and that one… and that one…” because they’re too ‘extreme’ or don’t follow their western liberalized values. It’s like saying you’re all for freedom of speech! And then wanting someone to take down an anti-abortion ad. … That’s saying you’re all for your OWN freedom of speech, not anyone else’s.

Let adults be religious. Educate everyone. Don’t be an extreme jerk that for some reasons feels more holier than thou to tell other muslims that they’re “not muslim enough” or not “doing a good enough job”. Worry about yourself.

If you don’t change, then you’re not going to last. We are living in a new world that is only going to get more and more different as the years go by. Islam might be growing, but so are the number of people who think for themselves, not straight out of a book. If you’re not going to start accommodating people who want to talk, and question - then there is going to be less and less room for that religion in the future.

7 Responses to "Why Religion Must Change, Or Die"

1 | Taylor

January 17th, 2008 at 10:31 am

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Are you saying that you want a religion without any laws? That is ridiculous and wouldn’t be anything. There has to be set boundaries or else you wouldn’t be in any religion at all. You are more than welcome to question your faith, but do your own research and don’t take the words from one church or one group of friends as truth

2 | Brother Andy

January 17th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

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I’m sick of everyone bickering back and forth about who is right and who is wrong.

Then why fan the flames with posts like this, and posts that violate Facebooks terms and conditions?
Honestly KT, I think you’re feeding the trolls here just to watch them eat.
Islam isn’t going to change because of ‘modern times’. Nor will any of the major religions. By suggesting they ‘have to change or die’ you seem to be missing the point of what these religions mean entirely.

3 | Katie Kish

January 17th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

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Andrew “Why religion must change or die” isn’t my words - its the title of a book. 80% of the time the titles to my posts are quotes are titles of posts.
There are set boundaries. Christianity - there are 10 commandments that all variations adhear to. There is a sort of “10 commandments” in judaism and islam “core beliefs” … I think you still need to abide by those, or you’re definitely not in the religion at all.

My point is that major religions HAVE CHANGED because of the time that they were in. Islamist extremists are just getting their panties in a twist now - just like jews and christians did in the 18th century. I completely understand “what these religions mean entirely” I also completely understand that to be a muslim in accordance to what the muslims I was dealing with you have to be extreme and very fundamental to their writings - thats not how religion has to be, and when I say it needs to “change” i mean it’s going to have to be accepted that not everyone is going to live fundamentally to the quran, bible or torha.

Religions will change - again, they already have. And if they DONT change then Paul is 100% out of a job. His job isn’t just ministry, it is progressive ministry, it’s his responsibility to MAKE them change. Everything evolves.

“Are you saying that you want a religion without any laws? That is ridiculous and wouldn’t be anything.”

No. That’s not what I’m saying at all. As I just said above - there are core beliefs in each religion, and I think its important to stick with those. But they’re more like morals, like don’t kill people, and love people instead. Follow that and then be whatever kind of christian you want to be.

I’m not taking the word from ONE church or ONE group of friends as truth. I have friends of all faiths, no faiths, kinda one faith, but a little bit of another faith, extremely one faith… etc. and I hear what they all say. I’ve gone to many churches over the span of my life and I’ve listened to many conversations about churches in the span of my life.

4 | King

January 17th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

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come on guys what she is saying is not said well (stream of conciousness type thing) but is true.

Taylor every christian group has laws but can stray from those. Same with jews. Why can’t islam get to this point?

Andrew what facebook terms and conditions did she violate by creating a group that was in support of a singular man? And what are you talking about major religions won’t change? Christianity has a million times over!

5 | Esther

January 18th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

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Hi Katie,

I’m suprised, but I guess I’m not suprised that you’re a minister’s daughter but have fallen away from the Lord. I’d like to talk about this more with you if you want. I work with the Acquire the Fire. You can find me on Facebook-Esther Byington

6 | Katie Kish

January 18th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

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We’ve discussed how my step-dad being a preacher has affected my religious outcome, and I think that I probably would have turned away from christanity regardless. They didn’t push religion on me, and every decision I’ve made regarding religion that have fully supported me on. When I went to the Center for Inquiry conference last summer they were really supportive of it.

7 | Amanda

February 8th, 2008 at 10:51 pm

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You’ll probably find a lot of the very thoughts and frustrations and things you’ve just expressed here in the gospels.

The personalities who talk with the most passion and genuine concern are God and Jesus.

See Job chapters 38-42

You might also enjoy some of the messages taught here:

http://www.houseofmercy.org

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