Liberal Debutante

1 | Brother Andy

November 14th, 2006 at 8:30 am

According to webster: slut: a promiscuous woman
Sleeping with 8 guys (at once?!) would make you fairly promiscuous - and hence a slut. I’m sorry, you can call any word you want a ‘boundary’ - that doesn’t make the words less meaningful.
Of course in this day and age sluts are in demand - that song I posted in an earlier comment contains the lyrics “I want a slut” several times. Sluts are loved and promoted these days.

2 | Larry Gambone

November 14th, 2006 at 9:07 am

The term “slut” is an example of the double standard and a repressive attitude toward sex. I guy who gets laid a lot is cool, is a stud, but a gal who does is a slut. How stupid and how sick! It is part of the notion that somehow sex is bad, rooted in authoritarian religious cults. Anybody that calls you a slut tell em to go fuck themselves, as it will be the best fuck they will ever have!

3 | Cairnarvon

November 14th, 2006 at 11:06 am

Almost nobody thinks a guy who gets laid a lot is cool because of it. He’d be a slut as much as the girl.

These are different views about sex. The view that sex isn’t just something you do with someone you love is one that makes you a slut. That’s the definition, pretty much.

The question, though, is whether you think this is necessarily a bad thing or not. As long as your partner(s) share your definition, I don’t particularly see either view as problematic.

4 | Skatje Myers

November 14th, 2006 at 11:08 am

As it happens, Larry, I’d call a guy who slept around a slut as well. Equally despicable.

Kian, get a dictionary.

5 | Kian

November 14th, 2006 at 12:01 pm

Andy, I’ve never slept with 8 guys all at the same time. I picked a random number. …I don’t think trivial sex makes someone a slut. …I don’t think Samantha from Sex and the City is a slut… she sleeps with a different guy almost every episode (except when she is dating Richard the prick and Smith Jared the sexy actor in the 6th season).
Skatje … what difference is going to a dictionary going to make in this conversation? We can lay out the definition of a slut, but whom ever reads it is still going to have their own interpretation. but, okay, we can play that game.

“slut  /slʌt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sluht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a dirty, slovenly woman.
2. an immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.”

…Hmm.

If you prefer…

“slut (slt) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of “slut” [P]
n.

1.
1. A woman considered sexually promiscuous.
2. A woman prostitute.
2. A slovenly woman; a slattern.”

I’m fairly certain that having sex with boys or girls I don’t love doesn’t make me a prostitute or slovenly. the word ‘promiscuous’ is where the subjectivity comes into play. How many does Andy think it takes to be promiscuous? Probably more than I think it takes…

Sex is just another action that someone can do with their body. I get *far* more satisfaction out of an intellectual conversation, so it seems stupid to save something so trivial for someone I “love”, because I may never “love” again, so why wait?

The label “slut” really judges the extent to which a girl fails to conform to the idea of ‘normal’ appearance and behavior. Love. Romantic involvement. Commitment. Monogamy. These are things that would “justify” sex, to the minds of a lot of people. And why does “love” all of the sudden make it okay? I know kids that have fallen in love and then gotten pregnant or a STD. …Thats WAY more stupid than having *SAFE* sex with 3 different guys that I *don’t* love.

This romantic bullshit clouds up the real and clear facts that we’re animals, sex is fun, and if you do it safely, it can be great.

Larry - I agree with your double standards remark. In highschool there were a lot of girls that got called sluts for holding hands with guys in the hall that they were ‘dating’. While boys could make out with a girl in some hallway that he wasn’t dating and would get a highfive.

6 | Brother Andy

November 14th, 2006 at 12:33 pm

Your dictionary nit-picking will not save you:
Oxford:a slovenly or promiscuous woman
Merriam-Webster: a promiscuous woman; especially : PROSTITUTE
Cambridge: a woman who has sexual relationships with a lot of men without any emotional involvement
Wikionary: (countable) (derogatory) a sexually promiscuous woman.
Encarta:an offensive term for a woman thought to be sexually promiscuous
American Heritage Dictionary:A woman considered sexually promiscuous.
Macquarie Dictionary: (scroll down)a woman deemed to be promiscuous

While we’ve got the dictionary out:
Webster says promiscuous is
“1 : composed of all sorts of persons or things
2 : not restricted to one class, sort, or person : INDISCRIMINATE
3 : not restricted to one sexual partner
4 : CASUAL, IRREGULAR”

So yes - if you sleep around say with, 1 guy a week, 1 guy a month or even more than 1 guy ever - you are promiscuous by the very definition of the word.
I don’t disagree that sex is fun, nor am I defending marriage/relationships. What I am saying is that throwing the baby out with the bath water is never a good idea. Purely sexual relationships are fun, and so is sleeping around — however there is something to be said about a monogamous relationship - and IMHO the best sex comes with time spent with one partner!

7 | Shnakepup

November 14th, 2006 at 6:16 pm

You can’t use the word “slut” in any sense but derogatory. It seems to be that skatje is trying to mask the insult by pretending to be objective about it.

8 | Skatje Myers

November 14th, 2006 at 7:49 pm

I’m not saying it wasn’t insulting. Where the hell did you guys miss that?

9 | Larry Gambone

November 14th, 2006 at 9:36 pm

I think it would be a good idea to drop the term “slut” as it is a derogatory term used against women who happen to like sex outside of romantic involvement. We have dropped derogatory racial terms, nor would anyone today refer to women as “broads” or “cunts”, so why should we cling to this insulting and outmoded relic of sexual repression?

10 | Kian

November 14th, 2006 at 10:03 pm

word up larry. (although im guilty of calling people “cunt bags”…well, my roommates.)

“What I am saying is that throwing the baby out with the bath water is never a good idea.”

…I wouldn’t think it would be… my goodness.

Skatje don’t worry, I didnt miss that you weren’t being insulting. It was very VERY clear to me that you were being very hurtfully insulting. the word “slut” holds such nasty undertones. I can accept the fact that people may not agree with the fact that Im sleeping with a guy im not dating. … Sort of like I can accept the fact that some people think its bad to have sex before marriage. …i just dont agree with either of these views and think they’re very narrow minded.

11 | Kian

November 14th, 2006 at 10:04 pm

Oh, and Andy - I’m not saying that a mono-relationship isn’t something that i want. I do want one, just not right now. to have one right now would be really stupid for me since I’m moving in less than 2 years, and … I want to focus on school.

12 | belledame222

November 16th, 2006 at 8:25 am

Yep, slut is derived from “slattern;” it is profoundly connected to class. The drudge. The low-class. The one who does the “dirty work,” so that the “angel in the house” may maintain her purity as well as the gentleman in -his- place at the top of the hierarchy; all’s right with the world. She’s the designated toilet or toilet cleaner; after all, someone has to be, right?

more contemporaneously, “slut” generally means “anyone who’s having more sex than I am and/or seems to be enjoying hirself more than I am.”

I wrote more on this in the wake of the Althouse/Jessica business:

http://fetchmemyaxe.blogspot.com/2006/09/classy.html

13 | belledame222

November 16th, 2006 at 8:32 am

jesus, what a choad that skatje character is.

that’s so classic, too. Yes, clearly you are for -emotional- sex, as in, deep loving connections; this is why you feel compelled to throw nasty crap at strangers, on account of you are all about the Lurve. and depth. righty-o.

and: I’m not telling you what to do, I -just-…

Yeah okay, everyone has a right to their opinion. Don’t be so sensitive.

so I’m sure skatje won’t mind when I call him/her/hir/it an illiterate mouth-breathing fuckstain who clearly gets off on hir own nastiness to sexual women but is too cowardly to own up to it.

hey, just my opinion! lol!

14 | kian

November 16th, 2006 at 11:14 am

“this is why you feel compelled to throw nasty crap at strangers, on account of you are all about the Lurve.”

haaaardy har. So true.

I dont think she gets off on it as much as she has no other defense, but hey - thats just my opinion.

15 | Skatje Myers

November 17th, 2006 at 12:30 am

I don’t think I’m the hypocrite here. Saying Kian’s lifestyle meets the definition of slut is significantly less thrown crap than having a hoard of people directly saying that you don’t have the wit of a sparrow, are a choad, are an illiterate fuckstain (etc), are equivalent to a racist, and so on and so forth.

Take a look at what you’re saying before you accuse me of being the worst slanderer.

16 | kian

November 17th, 2006 at 11:11 am

Belledame is defending how she sees fit. I haven’t thrown any of these words out. and the racist comment was completely legit, please dont make me explain why again, if you haven’t gotten it by now then I give up.

17 | Damien

November 18th, 2006 at 11:03 pm

Or, alternately, you can say “Yes I am a slut, so what?” My feminist upbringing excluded ’slut’ from my vocabulary, unless perhaps I were playing mental kink games with a willing partner, but you’ve got things like The Ethical Slut, women writing about how they enjoy sex, lots of it, and this doesn’t stop them from having loving relationships, and they’re not going to put up with sexist Christian-leftover baggage.

18 | John C. Randolph

November 19th, 2006 at 1:24 am

As one friend of mine often says: “Sex without love is an empty experience. Of course, as empty experiences go, it’s one of the best.”
Skatje, I think the real issue here isn’t whether one should or should not have sex with or without emotional connection to one’s partner, nor is it whether you approve or disapprove of Kian’s choices in that regard. The issue seems to be one of word choice, and the word “slut” is quite inflammatory. That being said, BelleDame22 is also way out of line, and she strikes me as one who is going out of her way to be snotty.

Let me offer a suggestion to everyone, to think of sex as an effect rather than a cause. If things are going well in a relationship, then sex will take care of itself. If you want to have sex with someone, have at it, and if you don’t, then give it a pass.

-jcr

19 | kian

November 19th, 2006 at 1:33 am

“yes, I’m a slut. So what?”

This is how I would usually respond to this sort of ridiculousness.. however, when Im being blasted for no apparent reasoning, then I get a little curious as to why the person thinks that way. However you do have a point.

JCR - I dont disagree with anything you said. Everyone got a little flamey in the end of it all…
I suppose I am still a little confused as to why someone thinks… so highly of sexual experiences.

20 | Amber

November 20th, 2006 at 8:23 am

Hi Kian. Just found your blog today, but just wanted to say this is a great post. I couldn’t agree more. I’ve written stuff like this on my own blog in the past and gotten similar responses… it just always baffles me how some people can be so concerned with others’ sex lives. I really do not get it. At a certain point I just stop fighting with the ridiculous commenters, because this is my attitude: Look, it’s my life, I’m an adult, I make my own decisions, so everyone else can take their negative opinions and blow ‘em out their ass as far as I’m concerned. Anyway, more power to you! I’ll be reading your blog.

21 | BadAttitude

December 2nd, 2006 at 11:57 am

Sadly, I am one of those guys with a bad attitude about sex. I think women how are ’sluts’ because they had a fulfiling sex life. I think about how I enjoyed ’sluts’ but would never marry one.

I need to change this stupid way of thinking and accept people for who they are NOW. Not their past. And even in their past, those women and men who enjoyed sex with many partners willingly - well more power to them. Sex is suppose to be fun.

Suggestions on how I go about making this change. I can rationalize it, but do not feel it. Help?

22 | Kian

December 2nd, 2006 at 12:52 pm

Im curious as to how you were raised?
it took me a really long time to accept abortions. I could rationalize them, but like you didn’t feel that acceptance. and it was because of things I was taught as a kid.